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Schweiz (Deutsch)The act of simplicity
The act of simplicity
Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 23:37
I would describe myself as a pretty die hard Avett fan. I was introduced to them by a friend from NC a couple of years ago and (most of you know how this story goes) it struck a chord with me, caught me pretty much off guard. I was immediately drawn to the music. I immersed myself in their music, learned to play all of the songs, started going to shows, getting others into them and so on. I didn't really think about the reason for the draw toward their music until a couple of nights ago, I was on the phone with the friend who introduced them to me and we were discussing the new album. We talked about how the new album, although spectacular and we both love it, seemed to lack something that other albums have. He said "maybe it's simply feeling, a lack of feeling?" I disagreed because I felt that the lyrics themselves inject all the feeling anyone could hope to find, and he agreed.
His statement though, made me think of something else and it made me realize what it is that has drawn me to the Avett's music so strongly. It's the simplicity. They're just so damn simple. Please don't place a negative connotation on that statement, it's actually a compliment in the highest sense of the word. I don't mean that they aren't musically talented or that their vocals aren't complex, because we all know they are. My point is that there is no pretension in the Avett's music, no gloss, no glamor, it's just good simple music with good simple lyrics with straight forward messages. With everything we are faced with today and everything that is constantly thrown in our faces, it's ridiculously refreshing and reaffirming to be able to experience something so simple.
I, along with my wife and another couple, run a summer camp in rural WV. The program of our camp is intentionally simplistic. During the camp's 45 years, the administration has sought to maintain the simplicity of the program and what we offer our kids. I've always believed that children are the litmus test to society because it's so easy to read them. They are constantly surrounded with multimedia; television, facebook, myspace, twitter, PS3, Xbox, so on, each of which provide immediate gratification and mindless activities. Our camp is the antithesis of this type of interaction. The only piece of technology our campers see or utilize while at our camp is the satellite phones we send with our groups on backpacking trips. No television, no computers, no ipods, no gaming consoles, nothing. You'd think that we would struggle to get anybody to even enroll, much less show up. The truth is that we operate on a waiting list for each of the 4 weeks that we offer services. Our camp holds 104 campers each week, along with about 30 staff. If we had the infrastructure, we could raise that number by %200.
My point in all of this is that it's the simplicity that we all lack, and that is exactly what draws so many to the Avett Brothers. I bought the new album 3 minutes after it was released. I've listened to it almost non stop since. I love it, but there is a complexity present that has never been in their other albums. I know some will say that there are simple songs on the album like "January Wedding" and so on, and that is true. But in listening to the album as a whole, the theme is drums, piano, electric bass, and other nuances that may serve to diminish the simplicity of the music. I'm not naive enough to sit here and issue edict and argue that what I'm saying is gospel and there's no argument against my opinion, because that's exactly what it is....an opinion.
The realization of this, at least my realization and interpretation, won't have any effect on my support for these guys or make me stop buying their music. I guess I just wanted to put this out where somebody else might look at it, tell if they have another point of view, agree, whatever. So let's see what happens.
Replies for this Board Topic
"She keeps it simple...and I am thankful for her kind of lovin...cause it's simple"...
Nice, I like that quote
--
There's only one thing here worth hoping for.
Gibmon - I hear what you're saying.
After listening to this album the only way I can describe how *I* feel about it is "polished". Not rough like some of their early CDs, nor smoother like some of their most recent CDs. Just really polished.
Emmebee - good way to put it. Again, I obviously love it, but I really hope it isn't indicative of everything to come from them. I enjoy hearing this side of them, but I would hate to lose the "country was" part.
Gibmon,
I would say this new album is more like Country Was than any of their past releases. More piano, more traditional song structures, etc.
I can understand why some people would feel alienated, but this is the best album they've made thus far, in my opinion.
Not to discount earlier releases, or insinuate that they weren't great before, but I feel like they have taken everything to the next level with I and Love and You. From the album, to the live show, to the marketing. They are really a professional band now. I guess that bothers some people more than others.
Well put emmebee,Gibmon and blasto.
Love the quote by the silver tongued devil susanm., simple and complex at the same time.
Well put, this discussion, the album, life ...all simple and complex at the same time.
--
"To give the love you find
until it's gone."
"And I'm frightened by those
who don't see it."
"What I know to be true and believe,
I now know that the opposite is also true"
I slept on this one and tried to ignore it, but.... This statement is absurd. And I'm frightened by those who don't see it.
--
"Technology to wipe out truth is now available, not everyone can afford it but it's available." B. Dylan
Rejoice always, Mark
Blasto,
I might agree with you on some of the similarities, but...(I'm finding it hard to accurately describe what it is I want to say exactly)...Hollywood...that's the feeling I get from this album, and that all may have to do with Rick Rubin's influence and "touch" on the album. I have rarely liked what he's done when working with a group, band, or artist for the first time. It's impossible to doubt his influence in the industry, and the shear number of huge acts he's worked with is beyond impressive. But it seems as though his work with new artists (at least new to him) always brings about a noticeable stray from the things that made the artist get recognized in the first place. There is absolutely no doubt that this new album, as a whole mind you, is a far cry from any of their other releases. I suppose I just hate to see them slip into the mainstream and lose what they are so good at, not that that has happened, but that's my fear. Rick Rubin's relationship with them just doesn't sit well with me. I read an article today that highlighted my point that they have lost one of their most recognizable traits with this new album...their rough edges. I don't think you can disagree with that, at least not while doing so with a logical argument. They've been a professional band since the first time they were paid to play somewhere, and that doesn't bother me in the least. I want them to be successful and I want people to experience their music and the enjoyment that I get from them. I just don't want them to lose what got them to the point they are now.
Bobz,
I also found that statement a little too ambiguous. Not doubting Kris Kristofferson's lyrical ability, he's one of the best song writers in American history ("Sunday Morning Coming Down" is my favorite), but he's also kind of the Keith Richards of folk music....that dude has done a ridiulous amount of narcotics in his time.
"that dude has done an ridiulous amount of narcotics in his time."
That and the Rhodes scholar thing explain a lot.
--
"Technology to wipe out truth is now available, not everyone can afford it but it's available." B. Dylan
Rejoice always, Mark
So, about the quote...
I can see how it might appear ambiguous, but for me it made sense, and I'm going to try and explain my interpretation (preemptive apology)
It makes me think about how each person has their own set of beliefs and perception of the world according to their experience, and that for them, this is the reality of life, in other words, "what I know to be true and believe"...yet everyone's individual experiences are extremely varied. So, I have my own perception of the world and life, and for me it is true, but you could have a completely different understanding of reality, perhaps even opposite
and these perceptions exist simultaneously. I like that idea, of understanding and tolerance of different beliefs etc. I could be completely off base, but it's just like a song lyric, it struck a chord with me because of what I read into it.
I had to explain that because I just don't like the idea of coming off as someone who hears a quote that is vague and trippy and reacts with a "whoaaa man" without even knowing what it means
--
There's only one thing here worth hoping for.
gibmon,
I will not try to argue that the rough edges are not apparent on this album. But I think they were never an intentional part of the music, simply a part that they weren't good enough as musicians to refine. This is the album they have been working towards their whole lives. I believe that 100%, and I think that statement is true of every album before it, and every album that will come after it. If you honestly think the polish was something Rubin wanted and they didn't, you're crazy. This album is exactly what they wanted it to be, and that's why they went with Rubin. That's just an opinion, but from what I've read in interviews and know already of the Avett Brothers' integrity as artists, I think it's a damned accurate one.
I don't doubt this is the album the band wanted to make and I think they knew what they were doing when they went with Rubin, I just think that in making that call they made some sacrifices. One of those being that rawness that gibmon is speaking to. With that went the utter uniqueness of their compositions and song structures which was taken to the greatest level on emotionalism. They largely abandoned that originality with this album. And I do blame Rubin. In an interview Bob described how Rubin changed the structure of the song I&L&U to include a "hook" and how "you need that". Really? Do you? I mean, I know people love it, but they love other things too. At least I do. I love to be surprised. And up to this album the brothers were constantly surprising me. I think they may have further perfected their craft with the making of this album, but they lost a bit of the art.
My fears may be materializing....One Tree Hill....I mean really?
LonL,
I appreciate your well reasoned thoughts. I appreciate the value of tolerance and recognize that no one has a stranglehold on truth. However (you knew that was coming), the statement is "trippy" and has little value beyond the "whoaa man" factor.
When push comes to shove, all rational beings recognize that truth exists and to a great degree can be known. We all (the rational ones) accept the law of gravity and avoid diving headlong off of tall buildings without utilizing devices like bungee chords or parachutes which are based on other known truths. Even with the world's decaying morality, most of us still firmly believe child abuse and genocide are evil - particularly when it strikes close to home.
The motivation for declaring that truth either does not exist or is unknowable is simply to justify immoral behavior.
--
"Technology to wipe out truth is now available, not everyone can afford it but it's available." B. Dylan
Rejoice always, Mark
"What I know to be true and believe,
I now know that the opposite is also true"
I agree there are certain 'truths' = scientific facts = gravity.
However, there are also certain personal truths that people hold dear to them. I live in the south and people down here take their religion extremely seriously. They are certain that there is one true God and that Jesus died for their sins.
Now if I were to move to Cambodia I would most definitely find Buddhist who have found their own personal truths through the teachings of Buddha and have found some form of nirvana.
Whose truths are more true?
--
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks
"What I know to be true and believe,
I now know that the opposite is also true"
the quote makes perfect sense to me. i used to have a very rigid sense of what i believed to be right and wrong in the world, a worldview that was very black and white...but as i've gotten older, i've loosed my grip on those truths, and live much more in shades of gray. speaking from my new perspective, i still see the "truth" of what i used to hold dear, but am now also able to see the validity of the opposite as well.
and yes, gravity is excluded.
"All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth." Friedrich Nietzche.
--
“I too dabbled in pacifism once. Not in Nam, of course.” -Walter Sobchak
http://www.facebook.com/nastynate704
Thanks for getting to the root of all this "grayness" Nate. Now should we discuss the fruits of Nietzsche's messed up thinking?
Perception is not reality. Truth is reality. I recognize I may be wrong in what I believe, but I believe it with enough conviction to live it and hopefully die for it. One thing I know for certain is the Buddhists and Christians do not both teach what is "true". Either one is correct and the other wrong or both are wrong. The quote in question has no value beyond the whoa factor and providing an excuse for wrong thinking and doing.
--
"Technology to wipe out truth is now available, not everyone can afford it but it's available." B. Dylan
Rejoice always, Mark
so much for simplicity
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"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid”
Frank Zappa
These guy's have dreams bigger than you can imagine...They worked hard for what they have been giving. When you work this hard to get this far in the music business you want nothing more then to go as far is it will let you. Rick Rubin has done some amazing things with bands and for The Avett brothers to be on a label so huge is a great accomplishment. Being on the road day in and day out getting your music out there surviving on little to nothing and getting your music heard is a hard thing to do. We know how amazing The Avett Brothers are... we have listened to all there Albums.....All of them are great!! When you are in a band you dream to have the Label and the best sound. What more would you ask for? This is life and it's what you make it. When you have a family to feed and people to take care of and you work hard to get somewhere in it....you take it to the top and you ride that dream!! I hear the drums-I hear the banjo-I hear Seth screaming at the top of his lungs...it's all still there people. Stop spoiling this great thing and be happy for them!! Nothing has changed... they are still amazing musicians. The Avett brothers Rock!!!! The Album kicks ass and we all know it! Peace and Love to all!!
Nice first post. Of course, for some people the opposite is also true.
--
"Technology to wipe out truth is now available, not everyone can afford it but it's available." B. Dylan
Rejoice always, Mark
Thank you, SonyaB.
--
"To give the love you find
until it's gone."
"And I'm frightened by those
who don't see it."
"One thing I know for certain is the Buddhists and Christians do not both teach what is "true". Either one is correct and the other wrong or both are wrong."
Bobz....
Have you considered that both religions, or philosophies, may have a partial conception of what is ultimately true? I don't think the idea of truth is simple enough that only one faith or philosophy can have a monopoly on it, or none of them do.
Buddha's philosophy regarding suffering, and transendence being used for the cessation of it, may hold truth for one individual with the capacity and open-mindedness to attempt to follow the Eightfold Path. These same philosophical ideas or "truths" may be unobtainable, to say, a Southern Babtist Christian. Christians will not recognize even a possibility that this method can bring about cessation of suffering here on earth because it is believed by the Buddhists that it requires several lifetimes to achieve. The Christians don't believe we have several lifetimes, thus making the Buddhist's truth a lie. Instead put all their stock in the belief that this ultimate cessation of suffering can only be achieved through God's reward for their faith whe they reach heaven. Does this make the experiance of enlightenment any less of a reality, or truth, for the Buddhist through the Eightfold Path? No.
Does that make the Christian beliefs an absolute falsehood? No. They have their own ideas of transcending worldy suffering to an extent, just not on an individual basis. Christ's teachings are the basis of their truth. If everyone treated their neighbor as they wished to be treated, their would be no human conflict. If everyone turned the other cheek, no one woud be striking out. To live in harmony on this earth and to achieve true happiness, the teachings of Christ seem to hold a lot of truth. Now, in reality, is that practiced (or honestly even attempted to be put into practice) by most Christians? No.
I believe the Nietzche quote fits perfectly with my point regarding the two faiths or philosophies: "Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."
Right-wing evangelicals have thrown, what I believe to be Christ's intended truths, out the window in response to politicians pandering and war mongering. The "truth" that we are unsafe and terrorists must be hunted down and captured or killed is a function of power, not a truth. Right-wing Christians eat it up, throw their "truth" out the window for a politicians prevailing function of power. They say Christ didn't LITERALLY mean "turn the other cheek", or love the terrorists as they love themselves. This interpretation of truth comes from POWER and PERCEPTION, not reality. It then becomes a reality, as a result of their perception of truth, when troops hit foreign soil.
I'm tired and rambling. I need sleep. Not even sure if I'm relaying my thoughts cognitively on this idea...
I guess my point is I don't believe truth is in black and white, Bobz. There is partial truth in everyone and everything, just to what degree does it vary from the "pure" or absolute truth I think you speak of, I don't know. Its a matter of peception, in my opinion.
Do I analyze lyrics? No. Do I even care what this quote in question was getting at? Not really. It made sense to the author. It was his truth.
I guess I felt like I was being patronized in regards to the Nietzche quote. I'm not a Nietzchean and I'll be the first to admit his ideas literally drove him crazy, but that doesn't discount his entire collection of works.
But Sunday said it best. So much for simplicity.
--
“I too dabbled in pacifism once. Not in Nam, of course.” -Walter Sobchak
http://www.facebook.com/nastynate704
I can't say that I 100% agree with that quote--hell, I think even that is a grey area.
On one hand, I think there are certain truths--hard science, as mentioned above--and certain beliefs and actions that are more clearly cut right and wrong that can't reasonably be argued.
But, perception is reality at times--that's exactly what it is. Truth can be grey as the reality of a situation may be perceived differently by different people. Faith, belief in a higher power, etc--if I don't believe the same thing my neighbor does, am I right, or is he? The answer is as different as the individual you ask. If I act in the name of what I believe, that is my reality.
It also doesn't make you wrong to live and die for what you believe, as that is your reality, unless (in my opinion) your actions impede another's abilities to live according to their own beliefs, and they are held to the same standard.
I don't think you can be wrong in accepting the quote for what it is (to me)--believing there is grey in the world and that yours may not be the correct or only worldview, but it doesn't mean that I think EVERYTHING is up for interpretation--just most things. Rigidity is what I think is dangerous.
Apologies if I mistook anything anyone said, just sharing my opinion.
--
Wish me luck, I know you think I'll need it.
For all the hardest roads we have to walk alone.
Wow. I never thought I would see a debate about moral relativism and ethical theory debated on an Avett Brothers' board. Frankly, I tend to subscribe to a mix of psychological egosim and utilitarianism with a dash of Christianity. That kind of sounds like a recipe rather than an ethical belief, but I think going into detail would just sound like rambling.
Now, about I&Love&You. I've listened to every album from "The Avett Brothers" to the recent one, and I definitely think you can hear their music progress with each album. So, I don't think that they have strayed off of some set musical path, and I am praying that I&Love&You is not the climax of their work.
As for the simplicity of their songs, it's really difficult to understand what "simplicity" is in reference to: musical arrangement, lyric, or both.
I think from the perspective of musical arrangement, the listener is hearing more instruments than before, but I don't think the music itself is more complex. It's not like they are bombarding our ears with an endless series of riffs and runs. We just hear a little more than banjo, guitar, bass, and cello.
Now for the lyrics, I think we can all agree that they haven't lost their edge when it comes to meaningful lyrics. In fact, the album has some truly profound lyrics. In that respect, I think the complexity of the album comes more from the lyrics than it does the arrangements, although I think the music enhances them. I mean, could you imagine Head Full of Doubt without the clash of the organ on the second verse?
There isn't a superfluous instrument in any of the arrangements, except maybe the much lamented tuba in Tin Man, but I think without it the song would be missing something. I think this is reinforced by the comments made about how the songs sound when they are played live. They sound different, more like the "old sound" as some have said. I think the live versions of the songs are still great, but they lose some of the depth that is heard on the recording, or maybe it would be better to say the songs don't sound as anchored.
But I think it's fair to say that listening to a record and listening to a live band are two very different experiences. When played live, the songs are more lighthearted, but when I listen to them on my iPod there is an intimacy that you don't get at a concert.
In this way, I think the Avett Brothers truly shine. We get the concert experience that made many of us fanatics, and we get hear an album that has the ability to cut past pretense and speak to the listener on a personal level. Albums like this are a reminder of one of the reasons why we have music in the first place: to express human experience in medium that is more powerful than mere words. It's like a kind of musical literature, there is a density and complexity of experience that can speak to many different people. I think the Avetts have slowly developed and refined that complexity. The message seems simple enough, but if it where that simple there wouldn't be so many people who say they identify with the songs.
Yeah, I think I ended up rambling after all. My apologies folks,
I lvoe I&L&U, but I do find myself pining for the less studio-ed music that the Avetts are so loved for.
"it's ridiculously refreshing and reaffirming to be able to experience something so simple." I agreeeeee with this, gibmon.