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Schweiz (Deutsch)I and Love and Disappointment
I and Love and Disappointment
Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 19:48
I don't want to be the only negative nancy on this board but seeing how not a single other person has said anything controversial about the new album, I can't help myself. Where is the banjo? Where is the consistency of good songs?? I'm a HUGE Avett Brothers fan, have seen them countless times live and this album was a real let down for me. Don't get me wrong, I love a few of the new tracks but I have to say this is by far my least favorite of their cds.
Replies for this Board Topic
It'll grow on you. I've come to accept the minimal banjo over time. Would it be nice to have? Yes. Is it good without it? Absolutely.
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Give the love you find until it's gone
As Scott and Seth have said - they are more proud of this album than any album they have created. The banjo doesn't make this band. Their heart, their love, their talent and their honesty is what makes The Avett Brothers...as it did 8 years ago and as it will for many years to come. No real band, no real talent stays the same. They expand, grow and change just as they should. Maybe some just want to lock them up in this little bottle of banjo and twang while leaving out everything that makes them amazing. That in itself is sad and basically breaks my heart. They have worked so hard at their music. Possibly harder than most people work at anything their entire lives. For that alone, they deserve nothing but respect. And yet, some can only be critics of the things they don't understand. What you hear in this album, like every album before and every album to come, is the heart and soul of Scott and Seth. "We came for salvation, we came for family. We came for all that's good, that's how we'll walk away." God Bless The Avett Brothers.
patisfactory check out the board the I and Love and You first listen...you will see a wide variety of comments
I had the same knee-jerk reaction when i first heard it, then I freed my mind and was able to enjoy it fully.
Worst.First.Post.Ever.
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http://www.tablive.net
Just because I criticize them does not mean I don't respect them. If I didn't have so much love and respect for these guys my expectations would not be so high! This album still is better than most music that's being put out these days, and it's very well done, I just am not into these songs as much as their previous releases.
Prettygirlfromwestfield put it perfectly.
I think it is selfish for the fans to be upset by the fact that they have changed their sound on this new album. Everything they stand for is still there and all the complaints i hear is "what happened to the banjo".
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{i am a breathing time machine}
I know that everyone has different opinions and such. By my posts, I of course, do not mean to step on toes. Lots of the earlier Avett stuff (Country Was) had lots of piano less banjo. I think that this is forgotten sometimes and it makes me wonder where everyone then...when there was like 15 people at shows and we fell in love with all that is "avett" so to speak.
Patisfactory, I am confident that you will find in time you will love this album...maybe even just as much as the previous ones.
The song writing has grown just as the boys have.
I respect patisfactory for her honesty. If we can't be honest, that's just not Avettish.
There's so much to take in from Avett lyrics alone, you can't listen just once and pronounce. The first time I ever heard the Avetts, I thought 'What the ___ is this mess?' Well, obviously I've changed my mind and knowing that you patisfactory are a true fan, I feel like you're gonna give it a few more chances, be open, and then decide. You may decide you don't like it, and THAT's ok, too.
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Erin by the side of the road, New London, North Carolina
Another newbie posting... I have been a long time "lurker" though. I absolutely miss the banjo and will be disappointed if that aspect of TAB's music is over. However, knowing that bands change their sound over time, if you can listen to the album with limited expectations based on the past releases then you should see that is really a great album. The "polished" approach might not be your cup of tea but, as prettygirlfromwestfield said, that same passion and fire definitely shines through.
First off, I love the album.
But since when does a person calling something "the least favorite of their cds" constitute selfishness?
Or a knee jerk reaction?
Or something they don't understand?
That's ridiculous.
From where I sit, it's perfectly natural that someone might bemoan the relative absence of banjo when it had been close to ever present for 8 years.
The fact that tAB is proud of this album more than any other may or may not have any impact on whether someone likes it. Music is a very personal experience that can become community. But to expect that every Avett fan should like everything they produce is absurd. There are plenty of artists that I greatly respect who make music that I have absolutely zero tolerance for with respect to the sound of the music.
There are probably more people around that won't listen to something with banjo in it, I think maybe we should cut a little slack for someone who pines for it.
samonid...i heart the banjo too....
Ccrigger, I don't think it's selfish at all to be upset about the direction their music is going, that's what being a passionate fan is all about! You expect me to act really happy about this cd even if I'm not truly into the direction the songwriting and style of my favorite band is going? It's not just the lack of banjo. I have such a deep connection to so much of the Avett Brother's other material. It has helped me get through the worst of times and I don't know where I would be without them. I was there when there were only a few people at their shows and all I can say is that I just do not have as much of a connection to some of the newer material. It doesn't mean that it's bad or that no one else will have a strong connection to the music (obviously they have) or that the Avett Brothers aren't growing as songwriters and musicians. It just means that for me it's not quite the same and I'm gonna have to deal with it.
Understand what your saying. But disagree. I think the album is genius. Glad people have opinions though!
Samonid.....don't twist words, or make statements up....look up what "knee jerk" means (since you seem to take offense to the term)....and forget ME giving anyone slack with a negative and selfishly whiny first post. Anyone who makes a post, FIRST POST, like that to a board better know exactly what they're in for.
I thought we were rather tolerant...
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http://www.tablive.net
T.A.F.K.A.M., excuse me for being loud and letting my color show. I didn't know that i wasn't supposed to show my true feelings if they were negative at all. I suppose your opinion matters more because you have 464 posts and I only have one.
Why join a band's message board just to slam their new album?
^^^Exactly^^^
I don't get it.
patisfactory: disregard the "you don't understand" and the "your mind isn't free" comments. let them drop to the floor, and know that a lot of people have the same reaction as you...it's okay.
breathe. i get it. it's cool.
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"one with Earth and one with God"
For what it's worth, put me in the "underwhelmed" camp as well. The songs just mostly sound safe and not terribly exciting, except for a few towards the end which are really good. And I'm someone who thought the 3-song single was great, and also NPR's preview of "Slight Figure of Speech". Hopefully it'll grow on me. I'll respect their decision to go for a different sound which is, let's admit it, more acceptable to the mainstream. And I hope they'll respect my decision to push "stop" and put the Pearl Jam album back in.
(Oof, just killed the base of my "mainstream" criticism there at the end, didn't I?)
yeah, really. Pearl Jam?
to each his own...
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TAKFAM,
I'm not twisting words nor am I offended by the term.
You said "same knee jerk reaction."
A knee jerk reaction is typically thought of as an automatic reaction, made without thinking. There is nothing to indicate that the post was made without thinking. Your statement appears to me to suggest that the original post was made without thinking and was closed minded ("then I freed my mind and was able to enjoy it fully"). Per chance, should it have been taken differently?
I don't know why a long time fan and lurker should expect to be punished for being moved to make their first post because of a negative impression of a new album by an artist they love.
I have nothing against you. I simply thought that a few of the replies were ridiculous and said as much.
Why am I always the last one to post on a subject (thread killer)? Well, I'll get to it then. They're really coming out of the woodwork over the new album; that is excellent. Opinions are flying all over the place. I, being a fairly recent Avett convert (lil over 2 yrs since 1st show, ~ when Emotionalism was new), can appreciate the older and new material for all its diversity (bought Emot. then eventully made my way back to Mign., 4TG, LATDDI, ST, CJ, etc...). I can also definitely appreciate the folks that have witnessed TAB from the early days of stage diving and banjo mayhem. I am beginning to see a divide in the fan base that is just now becoming more pronounced. It's not like we didn't see this parting of the seas coming; there was talk early on about the new sound and how it might divide the older followers from the new. It's somewhat epic.
As someone who is completely captivated by the new album, it's hard to understand the critiques. However, I can respect the concerns because I wasn't sure what to think when I heard some of the new songs, especially Slight Figure of Speech.
It's been hard to see the use of the word "poppy" in some post. Especially because I don't think anything released by the Jonas Brothers, Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, or N'SYNC could compare to I & Love & You. I feel a little nauseous just referencing them in the same sentence.
Despite the concerns with the new sound, I think it might also be fair to say that every I & Love & You critic would be in up in arms with the I & Love & You fans if the Rolling Stone reviewer that gave the album a 3.5 rating were here.
As polarizing as this album is within Planet Avett Brothers, we'll all still show up to their concerts and sing at the top of our lungs and dance to the tunes (with or without the banjos, pianos, or low brass).
pcgil,
Awww, look at that, it took all of a minute for you to lose your status as a thread killer. (I think you'll have to try pretty hard to kill this one)
Enjoying the new album and very proud of the avetts, but also a little underwhelmed. Granted, it's a great album, but not my fav......like willdude said, it sounds really safe. And no need to knock PJ folks, they just put out their best since Yeild (my opinion) and while very "mainstream," those guys have kept it real since day one.....always fresh and new.
Back to the avetts, I will say that Jan. Wedding is a great tune! But I hope they "bring it back home" for their next.
why would my first post be a negative one? because everything I've seen on the boards has been positive and agreeable. I never felt the need for my voice to be heard if I was just going to be going along with everyone else's opinions.
that was what I was thinking masuther. But anywhoo back to the matter at hand... i love the banjo and i love the new cd. Its a new sound but the heart is still there and that's what attracted me about them years back. It wasn't the banjo. AND the banjo isn't gone forever people. Theres a bunch of new songs with banjo that didn't make the cd. I sense another emotionalism commin on after the third gleam. This album just shows how unique and diverse they are and the ability to make beautiful lyrics. IMO i think I&L&U shows their potential to the fullest.
1- regarding the lack of Banjo...many of their songs, when performed live, usually include the Banjo whether or not the studio version does.
2- every album they have put out, in my opinion, has been drastically different than the last, or even all of the others.
3- the studio sound changes, the live sound...not so much.
listen to the original version of November Blue, then listen to the live version. this will clearly illustrate points 1 and 3.
listen to each studio album, back-to-back. this will clearly illustrate point 2.
my point in the end is this:
Nothing is really changing with the music because it has always been changing. The only change would be if they were to stay the same.
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psh. there's plenty of disagreement and negativity on this board.... just sayin'
the cd is, in my opinion, another piece of wonderful, meaningful art from the bottom of their little pea-pickin' hearts.
if you don't like it, luckily you will always have the previous ones to please you. ahh, the beauty of choice.
so they aren't doing everything the way we want or the way we would expect. we aren't their mommas and have no say in it. I am glad they don't aim to please every one of our desires and stretch the limits of their creativity.
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Haven't you needed the freedom of losing your past? -HGTR
A couple reviews of this album seemed to criticize it for being too clean, lacking the raw energy of their live performances. At first I thought that was silly, since that's always kind of been the case with them, and it's really just the NATURE of live vs. studio performances. Now, though I haven't heard most of these songs live, I can see what they mean. But it's not so much that it's lacking the energy of a live performance -- it's lacking almost any energy at all. There's only two songs, "Kick Drum" and "Speech", which even approach the energy of tracks like "Paranoia". The rest are pretty, slow country ballads.
(Also agree with jracknicu on two points... best since "Yield", and January Wedding is nice.)
Allie, I agree with everything you said.
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Kill the doubt that strangles my self worth
Paint the picture that I swore I heard
Personally, I haven't listened to the entire album yet. There are still a few songs I'm holding off on till the 29th gets here, and my box set. Why? I don't know.
With the songs that I have heard, I dig 'em. I don't necessarily like what I've heard of this album as much as much as I like the older stuff, but I do still enjoy it. It's different, it's a little safe, but the songwriting is still the center of everything. Just from what I've heard, I miss the energy and the classic instrumentation, but I will hold off judgment until I hear the whole album several times. I'm sure it will grow on me. I only really, really enjoyed a couple songs off of Gleam II at first, but with each listen, I started to love the entire thing as much as the rest of their material.
And as someone said, live shows are just as crazy as ever. There will always be the live shows as far as "classic Avetts." Not to mention, we've got a wonderful back catalog to listen to! As for me, I'm sure I'll be spinning I&L&Y quite frequently. So far it's different, but it sure is fun.
But, everyone has their own opinion, and no one really has the right to say you can't voice yours. More power to you!
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And if it compromises truth, then we will go.
Nothing is really changing with the music because it has always been changing. The only change would be if they were to stay the same.
BINGO!
Also...referring to the thread title, uh, how can one love disappointment?
(ha, ha.)
There's an openness one has to have to fall in love with something besides just a perceived "type" that is right for oneself. This works for people as well as music...
We've all had or heard these judgy notions before...
"what's with the beards?"..."banjo? nuh uh."..."too mushy for me"..."oprah?"..."what, you're crying over some band?"...."starbucks? how corporate/mainstream of them."..."is that guyliner?"
When we let go of the preconceived notions people tend to bring to life (and in this instance, the listening experience) and just let yourself get lost in it, the world is a truly amazing and beautiful place.
And this is an amazing, beautiful album.
Theres alot of negative vibes comin from this thread.
If the guy doesnt like it as much as the other Avett Bros records thats his honest opinion and he can say it if he wants to. I personally dont like it as much as other albums either but maybe it will grow on me.
Scott says it better than I ever could: "Are you to assess what I've been? What I am? Or become? Did you stop to accept how pathetically dumb it can be to attack those around you 'cause you're true to color, a town, a time, or a place? It's not yours, it's not mine, and besides it is gone and you never will find it again. But I don't want to fight, I just ask let me be. I won't give you the chance to be my enemy, so go home and think it through"
That is all.
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Team Avett #36
lildeadhead: that pen she uses to keep her setlists? it's a human-finger bone. dipped in the blood of the ones who yell out during "murder in the city". poetic, no?
no one is attacking. we are just having an opinion.
I have been a fan for about two years now (not nearly as long as some of you). I imagine that some of you initially felt this way about Emotionalism too since it is so totally different from the really early stuff. However, if THIS was their first album, then Emotionalism and so on, there would be a HUGE contingent of people saying "I still love the boys, but I am a little disappointed with this new experimental sound." My solution to the problem of preferring the old sound is simple. I have gleaned YouTube for the best live cuts of the new songs and I am making MP3s of each. When I have them all, I will burn a cd. Then I will have the new studio version (definitely buying) and I will have the sound that I fell in love with. Laundry Room is one of the greatest songs I have ever heard as a live song. It is still good from the studio, but not AS good. They are different songs in different modes. I think I&L&U is good, but not great. Much of the sound is very "west coast" sounding (Mr. Rubin, anyone?) and contains elements that I get tired of hearing on the radio (comes from working, reworking, dubbing, and all the other stuff they do in the studio). I can listen to Left/Left over and over because it is raw, powerful, and beautiful. No chorus, no hooks, just harmony and awesome lyrics. I can't say that for some of these songs. The lyrics are still great (maybe even better than ever) but the heart and soul is covered up and cleaned up to a point where you it is difficult to recognize. I am rambling now, but I guess it is because I am torn over the new album, just like many of you.
This place would be pretty boring if everyone went around floating airy wonderfulness on everything The Avett Brothers. Everyone is going to have an opinion on which album of theirs is their least favorite, or even try to present an objective reason as to why said album is inferior. In my opinion, Emotionalism may *never* be topped.
"The banjo doesn't make this band. Their heart, their love, their talent and their honesty is what makes The Avett Brothers"
Well that sorta goes for any band. You could say the same thing about Elton John and Billy Joel and their piano. But if they did an album with no piano....heart, love, talent, and honesty be damned...some people are going to want some more piano, and soon.
As samonid said, "From where I sit, it's perfectly natural that someone might bemoan the relative absence of banjo when it had been close to ever present for 8 years."
I like what Addicted said....I was at the Tallahassee show on Saturday, and it's just lovely to have a raucous live show, with lots of banjo, counterbalanced with such a beautiful album. Now, I have my issues with it....but I say to the initially-displeased, keep listening. Especially look deeper than the sound (as pretty as it is), and you'll come to realize that this album is thematically supreme. Is this the best album about leaving-your-youth-behind ever?! Now we know why there aren't any Pretty Girl songs.
First let me say, I LOVE THE AVETTS...BUT...I gotta go with patisfactory on this one. These guys are my second favorite band of all time (second only to The Beatles...sorry guys!). I think the songwriting is amazing, as always, but the album doesn't quite have it. If I didn't already love them to death and this was my first exposure to them, I'd probably say, yeah, they sound good and I might listen to them. By contrast, when I heard them for the first time years ago, I fell head over heels immediately. And yes, the banjo is not there much, but its not just THE BANJO. Its the overall feel. Its still KINDA there, but you have to look for it a lot more. Its the electric base (versus stand up) and the full chords on the piano and the lack of kick drum/high hat. Its that driving force that's beneath everything they do. I don't say this with an ounce of disrespect. I think these guys are amazing. I'm a musician and I'm HARD to please when it comes to all things musical, and that's why I love these guys. I can let go and just be a fan and trust that they've got it under control. I want them to grow in whatever way they see fit...I just hope its what THEY chose and I hope that they really do love this album the most of all. IF those words are true, then I couldn't be happier for them. They absolutely deserve all the success and notoriety they get from this and more. So, one last time, in case I wasn't clear, I do miss the banjo some, but ultimately I don't care what instruments they physically play. I hope they find the new sound they are going for but that it still makes my 3-year-old and me want to dance to the same song 15 times in a night even after we've listened to the album every day for years. I love you guys!!!! And you know the whole family (3-year-old included) will be out to see you as often as we can on this tour.
Oh, and the 'who is the biggest fan' contest is bothersome. It's lame that we even have to talk about how long we have been fans (in topics like this, your bio is fine), when our first show was, etc. It doesn't give anyone more credibility over anyone else.
consistency of good songs ? ...reallly ? wow, these songs are so well written. Ill respectfully have to disagree.
welcome aboard !
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" The day will come, the sun will rise and we'll be fine "
I never really got that Emotionalism was so different than the previous, though I guess it is the opposite end of the spectrum from the preceding Thieves (favorite vs. least-favorite). When I first heard it, I almost couldn't believe how good it was, since it sounded like the Avetts but with a more polished, fuller, well-produced sound. ILY furthers the production values, but loses a bit of the punk-bluegrass roots.
I guess I'm afraid of them going the route of Carbon Leaf. (Incidentally, the first time I ever heard the Avetts was them opening for Carbon Leaf in DC 5 years ago.) CL started off as a cool, punk-Irish band, a more palatable (to me) version of Flogging Molly. But then their last few albums just became wishy-washy songs, with little trace of the fun energy they had early on.
Dolph, thanks for posting. I think we all appreciate your insight. Your last comment is very fair and it is something I hadn't thought of. Not sure how many of you have gone through this with other bands, but it happens a lot when bands are on the verge of something big. Fans are gained, fans are lost, and the sound changes. Granted that most bands don't have a substantial catalog like this before they blow up, but this isn't the first time these conversations were had, and it won't be the last.
For banjo to be put on some of these songs would have been a form of selling out.
Hah! Yeah, they sacrificed some of that sweet banjo endorsement money to keep their vision on this one. (?)
peace all
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Z
How does Dolph get that big type?
My initial reaction to the new album as the songs were slowly being dealt was pretty negative. I definitely like the rawer, less perfect sound. The more I listen to the album the more I am "getting it" although my preference remains the same. If I listen to the studio version of I&L&U next to the Charlotte version there is no comparison for me.
As to the initial poster, he/she lost me with the statement that there had been no negative comments previous to his/hers. Did you take a few minutes to read any of the threads that have been bouncing around here for weeks? Don't know if it was the worst first post but certainly up there.
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"Technology to wipe out truth is now available, not everyone can afford it but it's available." B. Dylan
Rejoice always, Mark
Avetthead420 - "IMO i think I&L&U shows their potential to the fullest."
I wouldn't let go just yet .
Not sure why the focus of this criticism is simply on the presence or lack of banjo. That seems pretty...well, narrow minded. That being said, I too have my share of questions (preliminary trepidation) about the new album. I've never been as devout a fan of anyone or nearly anything as the Avetts. Been there from nearly the beginning. I loved these boys when they sucked and were too f^?%ed up to play to the same beat. It didn't matter, though...not long ago, shows were a $5 cover, cds were sold from a suit case, Scott went through banjo strings like dental floss, and the passion dripped from the rafters. Times has changed, and Rick Rubin's influence has come to the surface on this album. For better or for worse Scott, Seth, Bob, and Joe would have never made an album that sounds like this had they been left alone in their living room with a case of beer. There are other powers at play. I've heard the entire album live on multiple occasions. Yes, the musical style and instrumentation has evolved over time, but the album itself (as a recording) is also different than what you'll hear live. Like it or not, you are not just listening to the Avett Brothers any more. You are listening to a collaboration with a studio producer who has an influence over the art. Personally, I love the new songs. I'm not crazy about how several of them were captured on this album, though. And it Spread needs a stronger presence of cello (screw the banjo). That song along with Go To Sleep are the two Avett songs that demand Joseph's center stage contribution over all others. Kick Drum Heart....wow. Not the same song at all. Totally lacks bollocks on this recording. That was my only real "disappointment." Others, like Head Full of Doubt and Incomplete and Insecure= Bravo to Rick Rubin and his influence. Like anything else, something different is going to take getting used to. Change will weed out some fans while it attracts more. I hear the music and see the crowds getting much younger than just a few years ago, which is fine, but what we all have to understand is that the art of the Avetts is being reflected off of the fans and back to them. These boys have the passion, talent, and poetry that they've always had. The vehicle is just a little different. They're dynamic. They have changed, and will continue to do so in the years to come based in part upon our reaction and reflection of their music. A true fan's prayer is simply that our influence on the band remains greater than that of a studio producer no matter how many new fans the producer might promise. I'd like to think that the Avetts would rather play to 100 true-hearted human beings than 100,000 douche bags. May it be so.
In my humble opinion, I think some folks may have missed the bigger point that there are 2 heads to this beast that is the Avett Brothers. In fact there was a recent interview with Bob where he said essentially the same thing.
1) The recorded versions of any TAB song on any album is inferior to the Live rendition
2) Just because this album is more "polished", more "produced" (I will NOT use "OVER" produced), and uses "less Banjo" doesn't mean that it is not an absolutely beutiful studio album. In fact - it is one of the best recorded albums I've heard in a while. Maybe since 4TG!
During last Springs mAyVETT tour, I kept telling anyone who would listen that "These guys are getting better, and better, and better". What I failed to relay (or even realize at the time) was that I was speaking specifically of the live performance. Now that I have heard the studio album of I&L&U - I say the same thing. These guys are getting better, and better, and better. Only now I can be much more specific as I truly believe that it pertains to BOTH the live and the recorded entities. It's just that the recorded version is evolving into such a more mature entity. I guess the live version is doing the same as well.
I was talking with LittleManFromAustinn tonight (Tues 9/22/09). He asked me this question, " If the Avetts were still on Ramseur records, or if they prodcued I&L&U themselves - and this exact album came out w/o Rick Rubin intervention, would there be any concern? (paraphrased from the original conversation). I thought that was such a profound question. I assume that if Rick Rubin/ Columbia/American WASNT involved - AND the same exact recording came out we may not be having these discussions of "soft". We would just be celebrating the new artistry presented.
Lastly, If anyone says that the I&L&U recording doesnt speak to them on a personal level shouldnt be met with anger or hostility. It simply "is what it is". Perception is always reality. If any individual's perception is that this recording isn't for them, than it simply isn't. No big deal, No loss to those who love this record ( and I absoluely LOVE this record)
Thanks for listening
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Take Care and Peace
Ricker
"Sometimes I use Curse Words When I Pray"