angi, of course you're right...but here's the problem. when you say "Can we bicker and disagree politely with each other or do we have to hold our tongues and only say nice things?"...not one of us who participated in that other thread said we have to make nice all the time. i know i said MANY times that no one wants people to stop dissenting or disagreeing (yes, that IS one of the points of a discussion board), and i even said that i don't expect mao to tone down his colorful commentary...except when it comes to throwing around childish insults. i don't agree with lots of opinions stated on this board, and that's absolutely fine...because most of the time they're not attacking another member.

and in regards to these "insults/attacks"...i fully realize that it's his sense of humor, but it does not translate nearly as well in writing as it does in person. you can be silly with people and insult them to their faces, when they can see your eyes and know that it's all in good fun. for people that don't know him personally, it is really hard to handle. it just sucks that we're being chastised for expressing our opinion about this by the very people who are telling us to let them express theirs.

i dunno. i didn't follow that thread. i don't pretend to police the people on the board for their behavior...i would never, ever presume to think i was that important, nor would i ever want to be...i just wanted to speak up because i don't want people (especially the newbs) to avoid posting because they fear mao's (or anyone else's) wrath. joke wrath or not...as i said before, it's hard to tell the diff if you don't know the guy doling it out! beat down the dumb opinions all you want, i encourage it! i was just asking that it be done with slightly more civility. that's all. not trying to censor, or stop, or anything of the kind. just to lighten it up a little.

Gibson, is your pneumonia gone? How about you phenominia? I hear the latter is much harder to cure.

Good to see you are back in good spirits.

Tab_Zealot, yes my pneumonia has passed but i dont think i will ever get rid of phenoninia. its like a cancer that keeps on spreading!

--
ninety and risen, soon we'll have to hide out in the shade. somewhere its raining and babe i can almost hear you say, that you love me

Talk about a man when he ain't around. Ain't that some sh!t.

I love you guys. I'm glad there are a few who know how to take me and a few more who are making the effort to figure me out. No excuse, no apologizes

I've come to realize my brashness is a defense mechanism and I sometimes lose control of it. Truth be told it's been a rough couple of years for me on many levels and I even hear myself sometimes sounding a little bitter. Every once in a while something slides through unfiltered.

I realize I wasn't very nice to Kyle. I wasn't trying to be. Did he deserve it? I certainly felt like it at the time.

Now, maybe not so much. And not because I feel any different about him - he's still a jerk in my book.

But because I don't feel any different about any of you guys either and I never want to lose your respect.

I know my aggressive style isn't always appropriate, but when that guy breaks in line at a show, or that waiter tries to give inferior service, or like this weekend when some jerk is driving a golfcart through the crowd at Bonnaroo bumping people out of the way, I'll stand there for all of us and dare him to bump into me while telling him exactly what kind of a$$ he is. There were people walking by saying "It's Bonnaroo, no fighting." and "C'mon guys" and though I feel those people were clueless because they didn't fully realize what had happened and probably spineless because they don't stand up for themselves in the name of "niceness" they still benefited from cartboy driving away much slower and considerately announcing his presence with "Excuse me, coming through."

Sometimes what is appropriate is determined by how well it serves us individually.

--
****http://www.tablive.net****

Do you think you guys could possibly limit your pissing contest to PMs rather than having the testosterone-fest here and in other forums? I don't know either of you and am not invested in the issues you've chosen to discuss, and thus I don't care which of you is right, a jerk, mean, whatever. You're both harshing my mellow, and it's just getting old.

i appreciate your post, mao...even if we approach the world slightly differently, it's good to know you can see both sides. i hope i made it clear that i understand where you're coming from too...even if i don't always like it.

You're my friend, Mary. I appreciate and consider your opinions. Let me thank you again.

<3 <3 <3

--
****http://www.tablive.net****

Hey Mao, no hard feelings and I appreciate your posts here. As I said in the other thread, I don't take any of it too seriously, and I value your straighttalk, even if I don't always agree with it. BUT I still agree with Heids that I'd prefer the pissing contests to be taken offline, but this is not only directed at you. Others have been guilty of the same. I also agree that I can choose to not view the threads.
Hope you had fun in Bonnaroo, despite the a**holes.

--
And your loveliness, no, it doesn't help
No, your beautiful smile don't help

Thanks, Chili. Sorry for polluting the stream. I'll try and do better. I had a great time at the Roo, best one in years.

--
****http://www.tablive.net****

I don't post often, mainly because of people like Mao. You know the type... the guys who feel the need to flex their muscles and defend every little point to death. His opinion is great and his reasoning for retaliation is in defense to someone else's insult of course. Mao is never in the wrong, and the way he's idolized around here is a joke. Most threads involving Mao seem to consist of... Pissing argument, taking sides, insults back and forth (Mao is never at fault for starting anything and he'll find every example of this and twist and decipher every phrase you say, because, yes, he is that pathetic), Mao's buddies jumping in his corner (read:BobZ giving a cyber rubdown to Mao and his ego), other people then bickering, people trying to get it back on topic, and Mao not being able to let something go. It's good to see the camaraderie amongst old men though. Gotta love "those" guys who feel like they're the backbone of a group who sit around and talk about their old music and vinyl collections and buy each other beer and really build up each other's greatness, because that's what brings them the most meaning and happiness.

But, since taking a stab at people and the band is apparently what makes a good board member, I'll go ahead and say it again. The way people idolize Mao and worship the ground someone from a message board walks on is pretty trite, childish and reminds me of high school. "Look at that rebel kid! He must be awesome if he has such a terrible attitude. Man, that Mao just doesn't care. He's obviously brilliant by the way he's twisting words and making himself out to be the defender. He made another message board that's pretty the same as this only you can talk about a few more things and there aren't bird points. What a guy!" But, I'll go further, the way the management of the band comes on here and jokes with Mao and tries to convince everyone that he's a good guy is just as lame. What the hell power does this guy have over you all? Oh, but of course, I'm sure I'd be best buds with him if I met him... OOOOOOHH!!! Or maybe he'll buy me a beer!

Point blank, you're a f***ing jerk, and you're that guy who stomps his feet and gets angry if someone doesn't agree with you. The a$$hole count at Bonnaroo was plus 1 with your attendance.

It's good to see people continue to be petty though as the band grows isn't it? And in response to anyone who is going to respond bitterly to me, especially Mao, because he loves any argument whether he's invited or not, I don't care. I don't give a f***. Thank you for taking the time to construct an argument that I won't give a s*** about, Mao. That should save me time from commenting back.

Thanks, Heids. I'm glad we can meet in the middle. As far as thinly veiled sexually suggestive and inappropriate comments, I must disagree with you.

I don't think it was all that thinly veiled. Seriously, though, you just KEEP making this about YOU. I don't care, or think I even knew, if you are male or female. You would have gotten that comment regardless of your gender so don't pull the "I'm just a girl" BS with me.

Besides, ummm, you made the testosterone comment first. Sexism works both ways. Don't try to climb back on your high horse now.

And JesseP....you've make 3 post to this board, all b!tching bout something. How is anyone to take anything you say seriously? I didn't even read your post past the first 3 sentences before I clicked on your profile to try and figure out where you came form. I saw you only make negative post and didn't bother to finish reading whatever garbage you've posted, you pathetic troll. Slither away and be gone.

If you don't post more because of people like me then my job is done here.

--
****http://www.tablive.net****

"You're right, perhaps my gender has nothing to do with it. And I did raise testosterone first. However, I am not claiming that you were sexist. Just inappropriate." - Heids

Wow...nice double talk, but let's keep it straight.

You said my comments were "inappropriate" because YOU are a female. So, yes, you were implying that my comments were sexist and, thus, inappropriate.

We can agree to disagree on many things. the facts are not one of them. I don't know if you're trying to confuse me, or the people reading this but you're gonna have to try a little harder to achieve your goals.

--
****http://www.tablive.net****

I didn't mean to confuse you. Let me try to make my point clearer:

As a PERSON (irrespective of my gender), if I'm having a discussion with a stranger, and that person says something to imply I could/should/am invited to put his dick in my mouth, that's inappropriate. You're right, my gender is not relevant, and I shouldn't have implied that it was. Either way, that kind of talk is totally uncalled for. I'm all for a good dick joke, don't get me wrong. But there's a time and a place, and I think that your timing and placement was way off.

Ann while your in the kitchen could you get me a beer, I'll hold your spot?

I just realized that my exchange with Mao totally went against what I was asking him not to do in the first place. Ick.

I don't back down from my original position (i.e., there is no place for pissing contests and personal attacks in threads raising legitimate issues), and I think that I'm justified in thinking it's inappropriate to tell a stranger to suck your dick, but I apologize for my part in making this board an uglier place.

And with that, my participation in this thread is over.

I see that your sole purpose in life JessieP is to try and make other people feel bad about themselves because you hate yourself so much.

--
ninety and risen, soon we'll have to hide out in the shade. somewhere its raining and babe i can almost hear you say, that you love me

Perhaps it's your inability to grasp facts or your inclination to twist them that's caused you think I'm confused.

I understand and am perfectly clear on what you're trying to say. I just disagree. And no amount of backtracking or "clarification" is gonna change that.

And dick jokes are like Jello. There's always room for them. Whether you enjoy it or not depends on which end of the dick you stand, I guess. I'll take this opportunity to remind you, once again, that you started it. Every comment made has been in response to something you wrote and I have not deviated from the conversation. I have merely returned your serve.

The underlying fact here is that you confronted me. If you don't like my responses then quit talking to me. I mean, I appreciate the fact that you respect me enough to discuss your concerns, but seriously trying to find ANYTHING to make me the bad guy here makes you look a little desperate.

It is not lost on me that much of what I said about you could be said about me as well. We're just a couple of people confirming that people are different....

and all the same.

You do strike me as an intelligent and decent person. It is for that reason take I rescind my offer to put my "dick in your mouth" as you put it (although I don't recall me being that crass and graphic about it).

This horse is dead. Let's move on.

--
****http://www.tablive.net****

What exactly are the Terms Of Service that we had to agree to, but couldn't view?

I would imagine there has to be at least some reference to no personal attacks on other members. Do we even have moderators here? Can we please just have this thread closed?

--
I'm no angel, I'm close with my sin
But I've made the worst mistake and I've made it again
And I promised myself I'd stop
That I would change, but clearly I'm not

"what the heck has happened here. people, stop taking everything so personally."

agreed.

--
And I spent the last one just hidden away
Screaming my lungs out with nothing to say.

Stirred, to further expand on what you are saying.....
I can not tell you how many times I have typed a reply and then just said to myself "what good does that do?" Nine times out of ten I just erase it, post something different or do not post at all and go on with life.

See what I mean, Stirred. You had some valid points and that's the very reason to NOT close or censor a thread. I agree with almost everything you said.

Almost.

So let's review, shall we.

Yes, seriously, Mao. Because I didn't participate in the conversation, does not mean that I don't have an opinion about the topic as a board member. I do agree that we have the choice in whether or not we view a topic, but this board is read by many people, not just those of us who chose to post. "

I agree and understand that. However, what you fail to take into consideration is that while you may loathe these pathetic and childish exchanges (yes, I have no delusion about ANYTHING I do), there are some who are entertained a little. HELL, a lot! It really is quite Jerry Springer-ish, come to think of it. We had to set up a concession stand earlier and the board was at a CRAWL with people refreshing after every post to get the replies. So while it's noble of you to speak for those who can not or will not, I suspect you do not speak for them all.

I must admit, and it's probably obvious enough, that I find some entertainment in it. I like hovering just above some bonehead's intellectual capacity and hurl sly remarks and sublime insults at them and see which ones will revel more about that person to me. I know that sounds messed up, but I feel like I'm outnumbered by morons and it's the only way I can keep from packing up, moving to a one room cabin in Montana, and writing my manifesto.

Right, wrong, inappropriate, or not...my opinion is that this is out of hand, going no where, and there are things that just shouldn't be said.

Ok, well, that's your opinion. If you can give me some reason why your opinion is more enlightened or copacetic then mine or even my mailman's I'll sign up, but until then I'll have to disagree. There are some things I wish I hadn't said (what's new there?) and a few things I didn't like hearing, but maybe I needed to hear them and maybe they needed to be said.

Look, I know my post can be ostentatious at times to say the least, and maybe some people like that part of it. In fact, I know some people do because I've had laughs with other board members over some of the stupid things I've posted. There have been numerous times when members of this board have told me they appreciate me speaking up because that don't want to, or couldn't speak up for whatever reason.

It works both ways. I know some people don't understand and may be offended even though they never speak up. All apologies.

I believe as supposedly mature adults we should be able to censor our own selves and figure out what is okay to post publicly and what isn't, but it obviously not happening.

Obviously? Not happening? Really? You think I DON'T edit my post? Try not to make assumptions. While I agree that "adults" should adhere to some policy of respect and decency, I also know that public opinion on the matter is a dynamic subject that not only varies from culture to culture and throughout time, but is so pliant that it can change within a span of years, days, hours, minutes, and even seconds. That's how you get people who vote for George Bush one election vote for Obama the next. How did their impression of right and decent change? Who knows.

I do know one thing though, and that's not even an arrogant ba$tard like myself would not profess to know solely what is right, wrong, and in between. I have my ideas, you have yours. Wherever our two orbits come closes is probably as near to the truth as we'll ever get so let's agree to smile as we pass.

People feel the need to be right, more often than they worry about offending a friend or fellow board member.

Ummmm.......ouch.

Sometimes no response is the right one.

Which is precisely my position with this new kid. Why even reply. He's probably dealing with a late puberty or something and just lashing out. He'd probably LOVE the attention he's seen me give other people, but he's not gonna get it because of obvious reasons. While he won't get it now, later he'll prolly mature a little and realize what a putz he was back then. I certainly shutter when I think of some of the ignorant sh!t I've said or done.

Sometimes apologies are necessary without excuses.

There's where I'm gonna start moving outta orbit with ya. No apologies, no excuses. It's abused and overused these days. People say "I'm sorry" and have no clue what it means. On the other end some people think they have some divine right not to have their thoughts challenged or be offended, and are so close minded I feel sad for them. I care very little if they're offended by me. I'm frequently offended by them.

My philosophy, and Imma try to do this without sounding like a song lyric, is just do your best (phuk!). If you have values and you try to live them everyday and try to be a little better than the day before then you might find you don't have reason to apologize for much. And I don't mean "sorry I stepped on your foot" or "sorry I said donkey knuts in front of your kid." I'm talking about "Sorry. I was wrong." And if you do ever have to say that, then you should be afforded an explanation for your actions or words.

(That is so tough for me and probably for most people.)

See my previous comments.

Just my opinion, carry on (unless someone would like to shut this down.....)

SEE?! Now that's funny. That's what I'm talking about people!

I know your aim is true. Just agree with me that everybody has different standards and those people whom you consider to be of lower caliber help you feel good about yourself.

--
****http://www.tablive.net****

Stop attacking me!

--
Be Kind, For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.

I didn't mean "explanations" I meant excuses, as in I'm sorry but...(I still feel justified for what I did), which is how most apologies go down, sadly.

...there are some who are entertained a little. HELL, a lot! It really is quite Jerry Springer-ish, come to think of it. We had to set up a concession stand earlier and the board was at a CRAWL with people refreshing after every post to get the replies. So while it's noble of you to speak for those who can not or will not, I suspect you do not speak for them all.

Like the gladiators, I guess. Kind of sad. I don't enjoy watching other people trash each other.

I was speaking only for myself. I don't have a following or a group I am chatting with who has asked me to speak for them. I am only guessing that there may be a few around who share my view point.

Try not to make assumptions.

I'll give you that one! Your posts seem like you just let it fly, but I was wrong. So I guess then, I'm just wishing you would censor yourself a bit more. Your reply back to me was great, not offensive in the least. No name calling, just disagreeing. (Thanks because I am easily intimidated.)

Just agree with me that everybody has different standards and those people whom you consider to be of lower caliber help you feel good about yourself.

This couldn't be further form the truth. Check out my siggy (thanks Seth, for writing those words). Because I disagree with something you said, doesn't make me a better quality person. I am like you, just trying to do the best I can. Maybe I should change my siggy to this lyric.

I'm no angel, and neither are you
But you'd be ashamed of me if only you knew
All the terrible things I've done
To you and to me and to everyone

Peace, Linda

--
I'm no angel, I'm close with my sin
But I've made the worst mistake and I've made it again
And I promised myself I'd stop
That I would change, but clearly I'm not