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Schweiz (Deutsch)An Open Letter to Avett Nation from Paul Lohr
An Open Letter to Avett Nation from Paul Lohr
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 - 13:51
posting this on behalf of Paul Lohr:
Open Letter to Avett Nation
To All Avett Fans –
My name is Paul Lohr, and I am the booking agent for The Avett Brothers. I have been reading with interest the various posts over the years on the Avett web site, and thought it was time to address some of the issues discussed that pertain to ticket prices and touring.
Let me begin by stating that first and foremost, I too am a fan, and firmly believe that by “honoring thy music”, the business will fall in line, in its rightful place. I believe that if you continue to give fans a positive concert experience, they will be fans for life. I believe in a fairly-priced ticket, and I love a “value proposition!” I personally enjoy attending shows in beautiful and interesting venues (e.g. the Fox Theatre in Atlanta) and in (relatively speaking) intimate venues from time to time (e.g. Kalamazoo MI and Geneva NY this tour.) And I also believe that it is impossible to please all of the people all of the time… but Lord knows we try!
When this journey started about a decade ago for The Avett Brothers, the goals were, and still are, pretty simple:
1. Create music while remaining true to themselves and their values.
2. Do so in such a way that they can raise and support their families.
And that pretty much propels us smack into the intersection of “Art & Commerce”… where apparently you can never have too many crossing guards! So let’s jump right into the topic of ticket price. Most Avett fans are pretty much in agreement that an Avett Brothers concert is one of the best live shows out there. It would then follow that you would expect to pay a premium price for something that is “the best”… but personally, I can think of a lot better ways to spend, say, $100, then on a concert. Plus, every Avett concert is different, and I like to see them more than once a year… so I want a (all together now) “value proposition!” Everything in life is relative, and more by instinct than scientific analysis, $35 seems to be a very fair price for their show at this point… and since their shows are selling out all across the country, one would reasonably conclude that $35 is right on target. And that is pretty much where the ticket price is set. Some tickets are higher for premium seating and larger markets, and some are lower for seats that are farther from the stage. But according to a recent Pollstar report, The Avett Brothers concert tickets were averaging $34.77.
However, many fans are disappointed to find tickets cost more than that. And the reason is primarily due to (but not entirely) the “convenience charge” that ticketing companies like Ticketmaster, who have a “lock” on many of the major venues, tack on top of the base price for their services (of which, by the way, The Avett Brothers do not share in the revenue.) So let’s do the math: $35 base ticket, plus $1 to $3 facility charge (that the venue gets as a profit center, or to service debt, or for “historic preservation fees” for example), plus anywhere from $6 to $12.50 for “convenience fees”… and then, if you use a credit card, another $1 to $1.50 which will sometimes be charged to the buyer = a range of $43 on the low end to $52 on the high end! And don’t forget about the venues that add a parking fee on to each ticket as well!
Believe me, we feel your pain, and that is why we ask the promoters to make available to the fans an outlet where they can buy tickets at face value with no “convenience fee” added. And typically, if you buy at the venue box office, they treat cash and credit card transactions the same, meaning The Avett Brothers are eating the credit card fee for the consumer! Additionally, if you are able to get tickets through the fan club presale, you will avoid paying the high convenience fee. Unfortunately, many of the ticketing companies have a policy of allotting only 8-10% of the ticket inventory to fan club pre-sale programs, so you are back to choosing whether to spend time and money on gas to drive to the box office window to avoid the convenience fee, or weighing if $6 to $12.50 is a fair value for the convenience of buying from your own home.
I also would like to address two other items that we are experimenting with that affect the cost of tickets. The first is the opening act… and seasoned Avett concert attendees have seen a range of artists over the years from “Who the heck is that?” to well-known artists like Brandi Carlile or Grace Potter & the Nocturnals. Bear in mind that if you were to go see Brandi or Grace at their own shows, you would be paying perhaps $15 to $20 a ticket, maybe more. But when The Avett Brothers have them as special guests, the ticket price for the whole show will typically be in the $35 - $40 range for most tickets! Seems like a pretty good deal to me… The second item is that on occasion, such as Charlotte’s Bojangles show, we are having certain “box seat” areas with a designated waiter or waitress available for your convenience. Those seats may only amount to 1-2% of the venue’s seating, and will be priced in the $45 range. It won’t be available everywhere, but we thought it might be something nice to try every now and then.
We will be constantly monitoring the situation, and attempting to structure the shows so as many fans as possible can continue to enjoy “The Avett Brothers experience” for as long a possible. Though the days of seeing The Avett Brothers in small clubs are for the most part gone, I will continue to attempt to schedule a handful of relatively smaller theatre “gems” throughout the year, even as the band’s popularity continues to grow. And I will also try to make sure all parts of the country are given “equal playing time.” We know that if it wasn’t for the fans, we wouldn’t be able to do this. Please know that we are humbled and honored, probably more than most realize, to be able to travel this road together with all of you. Take care, and we will see you on the road somewhere this year, hopefully more than a few times!
Yours In Truth,
Paul
Replies for this Board Topic
Again wow. That was an interesting and informative read.
Thanks for that. May I suggest "pinning" this thread? Because this issue has and will continue to come up I'm sure.
I truly believe that TAB community of fans, and support team , along with the boys themselves are an anomaly in this industry and in this world! Thank you for posting this and reinforcing my feelings expressed above!
Paul,
Thank you so much for talking the time to explain ticket pricing to us in such detail. Over and over I am so impressed with the manner in which the Avetts, Ramseur Records, and everyone involved with the handling of business of the band conduct themselves, especially in dealing with the fans. You all are also appreciated more than you probably know. To be treated with such respect for our opinions is honorable.
Thank you!!
Thank you for posting this. The band, management, and fans are like no other. Although I'm new to this community, I've been on other band's boards before (even paid sites) and have never experienced anything like this. I'm proud to be a fan and am happy to support the band as much as I can.
I love following live music and I have for many years. Over time I have gravitated to artists who put their heart and soul into their live shows. Not gimmicks, but great music, great musicianship and people who seem to be following the muse. Often this means not being the most popular, but that is more than okay. 35 to 40 bucks for a great experience like the Avetts is well worth it. I know as they get more popular, they crowds get bigger, the prices get higher. Right now for me the Avett Brothers and Josh Ritter are two acts following their muse, doing things as much as they can their own way and they are passionate for music and their fans and putting on a great time. At 35-40 dollars I can afford to go to a show and hit a couple shows. I went to Kalamazoo last night, heading to Ann Arbor tonight. Saw the Avetts in Ann Arbor earlier in 2010 and saw them when they played Detroit. I have been looking at the tour schedule and thinking maybe a trip to see the Avetts at the end of the tour or in their home state. This only can happen because of a good price and a great value for my price. Opening acts are hit and miss, but one man's treasure is another mans trash.
I appreciate the effort, I appreciate the professionalism the Avett's crew brings to the night, and I appreciate the workingman's attitude the Avett's and those around them bring to the show every night. I also appreciate the promoter and the venue allowing the Avett's to take an additional encore in Kalamazoo. What a great show of support by the crowd, the crew for making it happen and everyone involved in the decision to let it happen.
The Avett Brothers are a special entity. The won't stay small for ever. The days of playing in front of 20 people are over, unless they can sneak out and play somewhere. This past year the Avetts played Border's bookstore in Ann Arbor. What an awesome gift to the fans. People will always complain about the price is too high, but for every one who complains there is easily quite a few people happy with what they are getting for their dollar.
I took advantage for the pre-show sale for the Kalamazoo show...beautiful venue, great seats, easy picking up the tickets and I would utilize the pre-show again in a second. Great experience. It gets the tickets to the fans. I heard a guy outside the show, looked like a scalper of tickets and acted like a scalper of tickets....and he was complaining that everyone had tickets and he didn't have any to try to sell. Seems like that is a good thing too.
Keep up the great work and continuing good luck walking the fine line of commerce and art.
Jeff
Thank you for the update. I have no problem with the ticket prices. An average of $35 per ticket seems right in line to me. In fact, I would be willing to pay much more to be guaranteed the best seats. For example, I went to the Kansas City show at The Crossroads this fall. They offered a V.I.P. area that guaranteed a spot near the stage. I had to pay a premium price to obtain the ticket. But for me, it was well worth it because of my passion for The Avett Brothers music and live shows. Plus, I am way too old to fight through hoards of people to try to get near the stage at an average show. I would not pay the premium price if I was just a casual fan. The Crossroads show offered lower priced general admission tickets that would suit a casual fan. I realize not all fans would be able to afford a premium ticket. But, this tiered approach at least made the option available. I truly appreciated it and would like to see a similar tiered arrangement more often. Thanks again.
Thank you for taking the time to post this letter. I also agree that $35 to see TAB is well worth the money for the experience to see them live. I feel confident that TAB and their management team will always try to be fair and appreciative to their fans!!
Thank you Paul and Holly. I've never seen such a personal interest taken by an artist's management or label. Yet another reason I don't mind supporting TAB.
I appreciate that letter and the challenges facing a band trying to make a living through their music. I personally feel their ticket prices are very fair. As someone in their 40's (who I feel may be a bit older than many here) and who has been attending concerts for several decades, I would suggest that the Avetts' concerts are fantastic value for the money. Bigger groups, who charge significantly more, tend to be less accessible to their fans and more interested in profits and fame than Scott and Seth (who seem to care most about their family and their music).
Keep on doing what you are doing - and Paul, book them for Massey Hall in Toronto. It's the perfect venue for them.
Thanks for the informative and thoughtful post, Paul. I also appreciate your efforts to make tickets available without the additional service charges as that's an option that very few bands offer anymore!
Now if I could only figure out a way for the boys to play Bojangles on a different night so I could actually attend the show......
--Rich
Wow...how many other bands sends out such a letter to their fans??? Only our sweet Avetts and that makes me so honored to call them North Carolina guys. Thank you guys for caring enough to take care of your fans. This will prove to be such an assett to you as time goes by. As a gal from Winston Salem I hope and pray to see you guys at Ziggys in Winston Salem when they open May 19th. Capacity of 1500 is a great crowd to enjoy you guys. Thanks again for letting us tag along on a wonderful ride with your hugh success. Blessings to you all.
Excellent!
WOW. The thoughtfulness and care that the entire Avett team puts into every aspect of what they do never ceases to amaze me. Paul and Holly, thank you for taking the time to explain all of this to us - you by no means owe us anything, and your taking the time to help us understand how the process works is truly appreciated. Thank you!
So thankful to be supporting a band that puts this amount of thought and care into their fanbase. Thanks for the informative letter, keep on keepin' on
To echo everyone here, thank you so much. A band that gives a detailed explanation for the ticket prices?!? Who are you guys??
Thanks so much for everything you guys do, both on stage and off.
I love this band!
Paul,
Thank you so much for putting so much thought and eloquence into explaining the pricing of tickets. You and all the others that are apart of the Avett family truly do care about the band and its fans. This is much appreciated.
Just wanted to throw in my "thanks" for this. As consumers in general, we're used to being treated w/ close to no respect. Or at the best indifference. But you just displayed the exact opposite of that. So thanks.
That's what's up.
It costs nothing to be honest, loyal, and true. It may cost us a bit more than 'nothing' to witness that out on tour, but what we reap from the experience is priceless.
Thank you, Mr. Lohr.
Thank you
What a great letter from Mr. Lohr. Thanks for taking the time to explain the ticket situation to the Avett fans-another reason I love this band soooo much and the whole organization!
I was at the Ann Arbor, Michigan show last nite and it was spectacular! The boys' talent, passion, and energy is so amazing! They bring me joy! I think they couldn't do an encore (someone correct me if I'm wrong!) because of the "curfew" rules at U of M. So bummed... and I'm sure they were too! The same situation occurred in Ann Arbor at the State Theatre last March. Stuffy U of M!!! I'm hoping that Mr. Lohr is thinking about a Detroit venue like the Fox Theatre (which would be awesome!) or Fillmore (again)! Also, there are tons of outdoor festivals in the city.
WOW! A band's management taking the time to address the concerns of the fans. You don't see that everyday. One more reason to love this outfit. The TAB family/community is awesome and something to be proud of!
Thank you guys and gals!
Woah, echo all of this. So great to know that someone is listening to the fans. We all thank you and appreciate this. You guys are the best! Many, many thanks.
cheers for the words!
It is an honor to support the Avett Brothers; as a middle aged music fan, I am used to paying more for less. I feel like I pay less for more with the Avett Brothers. Remember, it "goes and goes and goes". That concert experience doesn't end when you leave that theater or arena. Think how often you go back to it in your mind and soul---my definition of art, by the way, something that you feel and think about long after you have experienced it. So, the value is hard to put a price on.
By the way, it is Sunday morning in Mill Spring, NC and my husband and I just danced to January Wedding with our first cup of coffee, spontaneous and just pure emotion, and we have been married a long time. We were moved by those lyrics--"I don't feel weak but I do need sometimes for her to protect me, and reconnect me to the beauty that I'm missin'. Like I say it just "goes and goes and goes"! The Avett Brothers have my back when the junk of life is thrown my way. They help me keep on and I just don't know how to put a price on that.
Thank you for that letter, Paul.
Singing in Mill Spring,
april
It's unfortunate that this issue even needs to be addressed. I just saw the Avett Brothers in South Bend, IN for only $80 total between my wife and myself. I gladly would have paid $120 or more for the simple yet genuine gratitude and enthusiasm of the band. They are unmatched artists and performers in a culture of synthesized pop music.
For those fans complaining about ticket prices, how do you think artists continue to make the music that they do? It's revenue, especially from concerts. These men need to make a living, and if we wish to anticipate brilliant album after album, then we need to support them by buying their music and going to their shows.
You could spend 20 dollars per individual easily at the movie theater, and I for one am thrilled to pay double that for the Avett experience.
Come back to South Bend soon boys, you'll be greeted properly.
uuber cool post. I am totally impressed you took the the time to write this.
Not to press our luck or air more grievances but any chance you can help with the pre sale situation? I am sure you know us crazy Avett Fans want to be in or as close to the front as possible yet the presale does not always ensure this happens (ie LA were the worst seats/spot I ever had for a Avett show)
Thanks again!
Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all that! I learned a lot too. The Avett Brothers are such a blessing in my life. I look forward to many upcoming shows!
doofrooroo, I guess you missed it.
http://www.theavettbrothers.com/us/forums/artist-arena-fan-pre-sales
I JOVE this post and just seen DMP and Avett Brothers in South Bend and paid 35.00$ a ticket for floor seats. Seen them over the summer open for John Mayer and paid 75.00 a ticket x2 and left as soon as the brothers were done playing. I get it, but would pay almost ANY price I to enjoy the feeling I get after a AB show. Pre sale can be tuff though.
Would just like to add thanks for this. To reiterate what I agree is reasonable pricing, I saw some family members this weekend who hear me talk about The Avett Brothers all the time. My cousin asked if they would be playing anywhere near Dallas and how much were the tickets. She and her husband belong to a biker club or something and they attend festivals and concerts all over the country. She couldn't believe the ticket price. She said "that's the cheapest ticket I've seen lately." With it all spelled out above, I have to say what I've always thought, I think it's a bargain especially for the quality.
There is no limit to the amount of money I would pay to see the Avett's come to CALIFORNIA!!!!
Your time and words are so appreciated. Thank you!
Echoing the thanks from all those who posted before me. Yes, I have no problems with the price of the Avett Brothers tix. I just looked at the cost of tix for a Melissa Ethridge/Serena Ryder show in Calgary....they range from $51 to $95 before you add on any fees. If the Avett Brothers play here, it's a steal of a deal not having to travel. If it's scheduled on a day off, it'd be a double bonus...
I have mentioned to a few people about the letter Mr Lohr wrote. Everyone reaction has been "Really?! They took he time to writew that?" No one can believe it.
Even the presale thread that I am sure I contributed too but completely forgot about is really cool for people to put out there.
Sure ticket prices have gone up (kinda expected) and the presale aint perfect but the fact that people involved in these aspects generally seem to care really matters a lot to me.
The Avetts said it 1st and our friend Coffee Bomb repeated it in this thread and I repeat it now
"It costs nothing to be honest, loyal, and true"
Paul,
Is there any way that you guys can prevent companies like this from buying tickets and then reselling them for more than face value? This is killing the average fan.
http://tennesseeticketcompany.com/ResultsTicket.aspx?evtid=1543855&event...
Thanks for the letter, Paul.
I keep harping on it but the same thing happened in LA.
The Ticket Brokers got the granddaddy seats and the presale folks were left at the kids table.
Paul,
Thank you for your candor in response to all the ticketing drama. As a fan of TAB for years my husband and I have had the the chance to experience some wonderful memory making shows. Music is a major part of our lives and it has always been the one thing that helps to bind our memories. As adults in our late 30's we still are able to hear a song or even just one note that takes us back to that place/time or show. We have had the honor of seeing the Avetts live many times and at the same time have been turned on to many new artists. Everyone from the "who the heck is Alela Diane" (blew us away) to The Low Anthem, Langhorne, Nicole Atkins and Jessica Lee Mayfield. Each show was worth every penny including the traveling expenses (and fighting winter storms, Ithaca last year!) as we live in Scranton, PA.
As lifelong residents of NE PA we are used to traveling for our shows......but guess what...on February 19th we only have to travel 15 minutes to the FM Kirby Center in Wilkes-Barre! How thrilled were we when this show was announced! I'm not sure how you landed there but let me tell you you have chosen a stellar venue. Over the past 20 years we have seen legendary musicians play the Kirby. John Prine, Joan Baez, Bruce Hornsby, BB King and Willie Nelson just to name a few. The Kirby truly is a hidden "gem" and we are sure glad you booked it. And the best part.....because we are so comortable and familiar with the venue....we are bring our two boys, ages 6 and 7, to their first "real" concert! Sawyer and Finley McHale are huge fans just like mom and dad and they are so excited. I don't think they quite know what to expect but I can tell you they will be singing right along with everyone else just like we do in the car and at home everyday. From the last Avett show we saw at Radio City to our next at the Kirby we can't thank you enough! As I am sure it is getting harder and harder to justify the smaller "gem" venues we sure hope you continue to do so. We are proud to be fans and proud to help TAB support their families too. Thank you for all you do and thank you for keeping it real.
Sincerely, Stacey, Tim, Sawyer and Finley McHale
Excellent first post. Come back more often.
Thanks Paul for the post. I must reply and say In the times in which we live paying $35 plus fees for a ticket to see a concert is nothing. It's rather a small price to pay for one of my favorite bands. I appreciate that you and the band keep the tickets prices "low" to accomodate all. As an artist myself you have to create and share because its your passion but you also have to eat!! I understand and appreciate your explanation but none is needed. Ticketmaster and other corporate entities providing tickets are "the man" that practice their said business practices because it is a business. it was really sad to see inflated prices and how much these said businesses have the gall to charge up to $300 for a ticket but luckily Avett Nation came through after scouring the internet and was able to pay face value to their Nashville show for Halloween. It was a memorable concert and i will never forget it.
bobzimmerman...thank you. Although I have been tempted many times to add my two cents, this time I felt overly compelled. I came here today for salvation, family and all that's good and that's how I'll walk away. Always keepin tabs. Peace. Stacey
Having played in bands my entire life...some successful and some not so much...I can say that $35 is VERY fair. I'd pay more to see these guys. It's TicketMaster that rips the fans off and passes a lot of the perceived blame to the bands. FACE VALUE is always best and the venues that sell tickets in this manner are the ones to support. However...fans will pay whatever they feel is worth it and I think that most Avett Bros. fans are willing to pay much much more.
Please come back to Southern California ASAP! I have only known of them for 5-6 months, thanks to Pallidium TV, and now can't get enough.
Thanks,
John
many thanks Paul... not that you needed to address this matter, but it is nice to hear your views of a live show and that its just not a money machine for you ( although the avetts sure have done awesome for themselves over the past couple of years)....
thanks again!
Thanks for your input Paul. Not that it was in question but you shedding light on the concern shows how much the Bros. as well as everyone involved do care about there fans.
Cheers.
Hey Paul,
One word: Fugazi
Thanks for the communication. Keep up the great work
Wow. Great to have such direct access from management, and that they're reading the boards and reacting to it. Thanks Paul.
I don't go to too many concerts anymore, so when I do I like decent seating and I don't care for GA, probably because I am older. I thought I got great seats for the Charlotte show through the second presale, so no complaints from me there.
On price, I'm generally of the mind that anything around $50.00 for a big show like the Avett Brothers or bigger is fair. Nothing irritates me more than to see bands like the Stones or somebody charge $200 plus for up front seats. Several bands have tried to make sure that the cost for seats down front remain modest, and I'd say as long as the Avetts do the same and keep it reasonable, I have no problem with that scenario.
I first saw these guys for $10... I would have paid $110.00 for that experience!!!! It has kept me and my family coming back for years!!! I love and support these boys... As a long time music fan I understand....
It is wonderful that you care enough to post this. Thank you!!!!
These boys have worked hard from selling out pubs to now selling out stadiums!!!! They deserve all of this!!!!
Thanks to you and the Avetts!!!
Paul is a class act. I booked TAB at Riverview a few years ago and he is a true fan of the band and a gentleman to work with as well. Thanks Paul for the post!
As a newer fan to their music (since '09), my girlfriend and I feel we get more than our dollar's worth. The Avett Brothers show up on time, sweat, scream and throw it all out there for us until only the law and the venue can stop them. I sent an email to the Ramseur Records about proposing on NYEE, and within hours I have a personal reply from Mr. Ramseur saying that things are growing to big to do that any longer. It was a long shot, but I got a personal message to share with her and I could move on. Those touches and this post to the loyal fans here, so you guys care.
We have been to three shows since October 2010 and everytime we come home, we talk about it for a month solid.....We pay attention to the emails, posts and boards and have travelled all over the Mid-Atlantic to see them. We are glad they tour and come close....they put on an amazing unique experience, for an affordable price and leave us wanting more. As a fan, I love it and will stay true long past the days the Avett's hang up their banjos and guitars. When Joe Kwan stops high-stepping with his chello and Bob stops spinning his base like a top, we will always have our photos, videos and memories of what it was like to witness a once-in-a-lifetime band !