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Schweiz (Deutsch)A Plea to End the "First 30" Pre-Sale Idea
A Plea to End the "First 30" Pre-Sale Idea
Posted: Monday, March 15, 2010 - 17:56
I believe it's time to do away with the "reward" of offering early entrance to the "first 30" who buy tickets during the pre-sale for GA shows. I think the intentions were good and initially, it might have worked. But now, I think it's time to retire the idea.
***Please note: I am *NOT* advocating for getting rid of the pre-sale idea itself.... just the "Early Entry" for the first 30 people to buy tickets.***
Here are just a few reasons:
• With the ever-growing popularity of the band, it only creates more issues during the pre-sale (which is already problematic enough). As was most evident with NYE, it creates a bogged-down website on the sales site and makes purchasing tickets on the first day of pre-sale a nightmare.
• It's not a reward to the members of this, the fan club. Instead, it's a punishment because we have to deal with AA which means waiting for tickets by mail -- if they ever come! -- and then dealing with the "Early Entry" entrance/line issues at the venue.
• It's just more fuel on the fire for scalpers. We already have to deal with them buying up tickets in bulk and selling them for twice (or more) of their value online. If they get hold of "Early Entry" tickets (which they do), it just makes the situation worse.
• Instead of trying to add value to our experience via the "Early Entry" reward, just let us line up as early as we please on the day of the show. I think I speak for most fans when I say that we're okay with lining up early (or even extremely early) as we enjoy the community and fellowship.
I'm sure there are other reasons as well but I think this is a concise summary and I hope others will agree that instead of trying to fix the problems with "Early Entry," it's just better to scrap it and do it the old-fashioned way.
Replies for this Board Topic
And, no, it shouldn't be replaced with "First 25" Early Entry.
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Join the Revolution -- http://www.tablive.net
I've thought about making this topic a few times. I too am not a fan of the 'first 30' reward.
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"I need HEEEEELP!
But I'm on it. I'm on it."
quite a few times there haven't really been clear instructions at the venue as to who gets in early either leading to even more confusion.
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Burn the questions. Burn the shame.
While I've appreciated the early entry when I've had it (especially in bad weather), it causes so much stress and confusion that I wouldn't be all that sorry to see it go.
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Give the love you find until it's gone
I knew I wasn't the only one! I absolutely loathe first 30.
Like Reiggin & Paige both stated, more times than not, there has been NO communication between AA and the venue regarding the procedure for early entrance and the fans have been the ones responsible for ensuring it was carried out in the correct manner. On the most recent tour, Dane and Pete were the ones to handle it, which isn't fair to them; the responsibility should be on the venue (after receiving clear instructions/a list of names from AA, of course). I'm pretty sure that Dane & Pete have more important things to worry about before show time than who's getting in when.
Also like Reiggin stated, most of us don't mind a line wait. I know some people don't have the time/patience/ability to wait in line all day, but those of us who do spend all day in line should be rewarded with first crack at the best spots. I've met some great people and had some wonderful experiences while waiting in line. To me a GA show means whoever is in line first gets in first, not whoever happened to have the cash/patience to fight through a cumbersome pre-sale and with luck's help bought one of the first 30 tickets sold gets in first.
Yes, the first 30 thing has saved me twice when I was running late (once on NYE and again recently in Indy), but I sure did feel like a complete a**hole just strolling into the venue in front of thousands (yes, thousands) of people after waiting in line for an entire 10 minutes when some of the people I "skipped" had been in line the better part of the day. The way I see it, I didn't really deserve the spots I got at those shows because I didn't wait in line for them. Sure, I took advantage of being one of the first 30 ticket buyers, but I certainly didn't feel too good about it.
C'mon, y'all, just do away with the dang first 30!
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Team Avett #36
lildeadhead: that pen she uses to keep her setlists? it's a human-finger bone. dipped in the blood of the ones who yell out during "murder in the city". poetic, no?
I would be even happier if they no longer did general admission shows.
As someone who has lucked out and has (very gladly) had early entry at least 7 or more times, I am also NOT a fan of early entry. I still end up getting to the venue just as early--I mean, I still want to be the first of the first 30 so it doesn't save me a line wait.
I really appreciate the spirit of rewarding fans, honestly I do. And I'm very happy to have gotten it.
But all the reasons above are great ones, esp. the issue about the confusion at almost every single venue I've had early entry, and the different ways they handle it.
Another very valid reason is that there are plenty of super loyal fans (and new fans, we all deserve them!) who want to get tickets, but can't at the second they go on sale because they 1. don't have the money yet, 2. can't get near a computer at the time of the presale, or 3. may not even know they have the opportunity to go to the show until later on.
Look, if I get first 30, I'm thrilled to get it and I really really appreciate that I've gotten it. But, I agree that it's not ideal for many reasons stated above.
If I get it again, I'll gladly take it, but still, if there was a vote, my vote would be against it.
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Wish me luck, I know you think I'll need it.
For all the hardest roads we have to walk alone.
...Or 4. Might keep getting dropped off the effing email list for no reason. Drats!
Has anyone gotten the presale email yet for Savannah?
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"Everybody knows that I'm a scum-bag" - GG Allin
Nate, they don't come out til the morning time...
I vote to end it too. if this is really a vote. I agree totally with all of the above reasons.
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I must agree that I prefer the simplicity of one line and "first come, first served" for general admission shows and wouldn't be at all sad to see the first 30 benefit go. T'was a nice idea, but in reality it just adds extra stress on too many people.
Chill, 7 TIMES?!!!! I want to take you to Vegas! A big zero for me, but even if I had one or two in the bank, I'd be against it.
By the way, I also vote against Captchas and for active mods.
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"Technology to wipe out truth is now available, not everyone can afford it but it's available." B. Dylan
Rejoice always, Mark
I went to a lot of shows last year. and I never win in Vegas or any contests at all!
nay to captchas, yay to mods.
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Wish me luck, I know you think I'll need it.
For all the hardest roads we have to walk alone.
why not just wait 5 minutes after presale to log in... those 30 tickets will be looooong gone
personally i could care less as long as i get to go to the show.
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Be Kind, For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Are pre-sales limited to 2 tickets?
I also would love to do away with the first 30 idea. It's the only reason I'm buying pre-sale tickets today, at a time when I am terribly broke and really shouldn't be spending any money. Yet, I can't fathom 30 people entering a show before me, and have always felt bad, especially if people are ahead of me in line, when I get to scoot in 15 minutes ahead of time. Sure, it has been a bit relieving, but I've spent my time waiting in line long before the early entry deal before and it's worked out just fine. And oftentimes, early entry people still do our time in line. Really, it's just added stress to find out IF early entry will actually WORK. And I don't think it's fair to people who cannot afford tickets the day they go on sale or to those who wait in line all day and still get duped. That's just how I feel.
I feel especially bad for the people that don't even know there is a pre-sale. Not everyone that attends shows is on this board or the mailing list. I know I'd be pretty pissed if I bought a regular GA ticket through the venue, was the first person in line, and 30 people still got in before me.
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Team Avett #36
lildeadhead: that pen she uses to keep her setlists? it's a human-finger bone. dipped in the blood of the ones who yell out during "murder in the city". poetic, no?
completely agreed.
Also, just want to add, I understand that the first-30 early entry concept was a very well-intentioned idea, a way to give us crazy fans an extra perk. However, it hasn't really worked as planned, and it really is such a brief perk that it doesn't seem worth it to me.
I speak in the minority, but I actually like the first 30 idea. THE IDEA. The actual execution, not so much. In NYC, it was awesome - very well organized, went just as we thought it would/should. I LOVED being able to walk up to the venue about 30 minutes before the pre-sale entry time and winding up in the front row. We had 45 minutes lead time, plenty of time to stake a spot, get a drink and hit the head before the doors opened.
Ithaca? BOOOOOO. Horribly executed. We had no concrete idea whether or not it was going to happen, and they didn't even check early entry emails, so anyone could have just gotten in line. We got in a measly 15 minutes early and then still had to wait in the back of the theater till Low Anthem finished their sound check and they opened the doors to everyone. It was stressful and caused undue rancor among some fans. Maybe that's a commentary on us as individuals and not the system, but I don't think the system helped matters AT ALL.
So my thing is - I like it, but only if you do it right.
Personally, I'm w/ NC4Now, I would like to see a lot more seated shows on the schedule in the future. Again, I know I probably speak from the minority, but I really would prefer if we could all congregate somewhere warm in the winter/cool in the summer before the show, enjoy each other's company and not worry about who's cutting, who's showing up late, who was there before us, etc.
ETA: I feel zero guilt walking in before others. None whatsoever. This might make me seem selfish or something, but sometimes the chips fall in your favor, and sometimes they don't, and I don't ask questions or feel badly if they fall in my favor. When they don't, I adjust my plans and act accordingly.
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Ain't it like most people, I'm no different, we love to talk on things we don't know about.
@heids I second your emotions. This kinda thing shouldn't be that hard! Put me in charge of it!
I don't feel any guilt about it either, tho I have never actually gotten early entry, I have spent time here and waiting in the buying que and anyone can at least try to do the same.If I can't be online at the required time, I find someone who can. Like anything else, if you want something bad enough, you have to put forth some effort to make it happen.
I just wish "they" would figure out a way to make the system work the way it is supposed to. maybe they do this on purpose, cuz if it was too easy, everyone would want in on it : )
I have two ideas. If anyone likes either them, and wants to encourage them to TAB mgmt, be my guest. They seems to be sensible.
A) Do away with the first 30, and possibly switch it to a random pre-sale lottery, with your name cast out of the lottery for 3 months, or 6 months in the event you win. You can still use AA to keep newsletter subscriber user separate from TM users, and do a basic pre-sale with a lottery. You could even adjust the lottery size to accomidate the venue's orchestra pit or what-have-you. I scored third row seats when N Charleston switched from GA to seating because of the time I purchased tickets, to find when I picked them up at will call, that we had front and center tickets. It blew us away, and we had an insane time. Wouldn't you want to have a chance at being suprised and winning something like that yourself. Do it like radio give-aways do, and only let people that win, only win once every six months or 90 days. And only accomidate the size of the front area. Seems ergonomic and fair to me. Anyone have any ideas why this is a bad idea? It'd make bum rushing the server at 10am a waste of time, and maybe save AA and TAB some $ on the technical side of things. And cut down on the stress of the community. Wouldn't that benefit everyone, no matter what, as a whole.
OR
B) Do away with pre-sale, and open sales @ the venue box office only, one hour before the internet sale. So the local fans that only see TAB when they come around their area, can reasonably obtain those few front row seats, without the internet saavy road fans that catch many, many shows (like myself) with the fastest connection or processor sliding in and grabbing them all up in seconds. That way a few more locals can get in on the intensity of the shows that seems lost on some 'nose-bleeders'. I saw about 12 shows last year, and met many locals in my travels that thought it was neat, but didn't get the hype. They should have been up there with us.
Mix it up and share the love, it's all I'm saying. Your thoughts?
Is today's clusterfück not proof enough that the system is broken?
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Join the Revolution -- http://www.tablive.net
I see you've put thought into this, but I'm not a big fan of either idea, esp. B. I don't think that locals have any right to tickets more than folks who travel, and I say this as someone who lives in NYC where every single band that I would ever want to see comes to play, so this would favor me greatly.
I'm not sure I get A. I'll have to read that more closely. As it is, it seems a bit cumbersome and if whomever handles this can't handle "30 people get in 45 minutes early, and here are their names," I'm not sure they could handle that. But like I said, I haven't read it thoroughly enough.
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Ain't it like most people, I'm no different, we love to talk on things we don't know about.
Yes, the simpler, the better and less room for error, and THEY don't have to offer this at all, sooooo...can't make it too taxing/costly..
#1 AA has to ensure that all tickets purchased thru them HAVE to be delivered 2 weeks before show date. It is utter BS not to be able to deliver in that time frame!! Traveling out of town to a show and hoping and prayin that your tickets will actually be at will call is indeed very stressful! No excuse there...
#2 AA tracks down the first 30 sales/tickets and includes an early entrance stub/wristband/whatever in the mailing envelope, which is of course delivered 2 weeks BEFORE the show. That is how you are notified of your good fortune.
Again, if you really want this as part of your experience, you need to throw your hat in the ring and find out what the options are! I own no claim to being internet savvy, but I manage to find and do what I need to.
/just sayin...
Instead of being the first 30, randomly select 30/45/90/whatever is reasonable for the venue, of those in the 24/48 hour pre-sale timeframe. For example, if they go on pre-sale @ 10am Tuesday through 12pm Tuesday, and they sale 400 tickets. Lets say a theatre venue can hold 20 people in a designated 'front row/orchestra pit' area. Of those 400 pre-sale tickets between now and say Friday when they go on sale to the general public (if GA) , or anytime really before tickets begin being printed/designated, 20 of the pre-sale ticket holders are drawn at random to have the early admission for GA or designated seats in the front section, seats picked between the randomly drawn 20 at random. The only available candidates are AA users, as they already govern the pre-sale. The only way to get into the AA/TAB pre-sale system is to be an AB newsletter subscriber. If you won this lottery March 16th, you couldn't be drawn for this lottery until a pre-sale after September 16th. The winners can be drawn automatically by software. Though to prevent fraud via users holding multiple accounts, they can filter their picks via the lottery by home address associated with the card. One winner per household, per six months. It's not infallible, as you may hold credit cards under multiple addresses. But it's still drawn at random, and what's your MO? Messing up your credit with many, many credit cards in order to have better chances at this lottery, or winning the lottery? And winners have to be selected from ticket purchases anyway, so are you gonna buy 10 tickets with the hopes that two of them are winners? And are you gonna do this every time a pre-sale comes around? If you have that kind of money, you are not the average user, and you're gonna work the system that way, or some other anyway. Or they can pay an individual that can scrutinize the random winners the same as the software would in attempts to avoid fraud. How many employees does AA have? And how much, if any money does the commotion of pre-sales/upset users cost them? It's simple business math. Weight your options, and go with the most cost effective. Remembering to weight into consideration the potential loss of future business through dissatisfied customers into your bottom line. Software that executes these routines has been widely available for decades, this isn't particle physics. Being handled on the back-end can also prevent hacking situations. It just seems to make sense if AA is setting losses either in money spent fixing problems, or running off customers, if even eventually after multiple 'screw-ups'.
And not to be coarse, but you can rightly keep your NYC advantage. Remember you've got over a million potential folks for competition. It's the same for any fan in any large city. I'll enjoy my small town advantage of only waiting out a day (I'm not really going to
), while kids in Portland wait three days. In an era where folks miss record stores instead of iTunes, and the 'old school' way of camping at the box office, TAB can set a trend to kick it old school and give the dedicated kids that have more energy to burn front row a chance against us old working stiffs. These are jokes. 
No but if I REALLY wanted front row, that way I could make it happen. Especially if they announced the on sale date more than two weeks ahead. How much notice do you need to give to take a day off, if you care that much to wait and scream at a screen anyway. I really hope I didn't offend you with the comment of keeping your advantage. From what I know of you here, I think you're cool and dig your style. I'm a fan of peace and when it's more efficent, following the path of least resistance. These are two ideas that seem to make sense to me, a fallible individual that equates to a drop in the pool. You never know, maybe I'll make ripples. 
I'd love to hear ideas for a solution rather than GD this and MF that. What's yours?
and yes lovewritesaletter, they need to handle distribution ahead of time. it's just sloppy business otherwise, and they have ample competition that can more than happily pick up the ball. though i trust they are capable organizing this, if it a priority for them. after all, TAB aren't taylor swift
No, no offense taken at all. Some people love NYC, some people hate it. I happen to be deeply in love with it, but I hear what you're saying. I just don't think that locals - no matter what the market - should be given some sort of advantage over others who are willing to travel to go to shows.
The lottery system is a better approach but again, if the people that run this aren't able to let in a list of 30 people 45 minutes early, I can almost assure you that they won't be able to handle that sort of thing. I like Lovewritesaletter's idea of making sure you send the wrist band w/ the tickets and regardless, SEND THE TICKETS EARLIER THAN TWO DAYS BEFORE THE SHOW.
Again, I think the better answer to all of it is more seated shows, but that's my personal preference.
ETA: REALLY? I GOT THE CAPTCHA WRONG? MAYBE THAT'S BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THOSE ARE EVEN ENGLISH CHARACTERS. GAAAAAAAAAH!!!!
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Ain't it like most people, I'm no different, we love to talk on things we don't know about.